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[*] posted on 26-6-2015 at 03:41 PM
Do Lightweight Pulleys FREE Power? With Poll





For those of you who own NST pulleys, those who would like to read up a bit, and any of you who may want to contribute to the online poll...

http://nonstoptuningusa.com/2015/06/26/do-lightweight-aluminum-pull...

:2thumbsup:

[Edited on 7/16/2015 by alfradio]




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[*] posted on 26-6-2015 at 05:20 PM


That's a given that it frees up power. Any time you reduce rotational weight, you reduce load on the engine.



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[*] posted on 27-6-2015 at 08:48 AM


I'm all for free power

And im definitely for lightweight pulleys

Except crank pulleys

But if you're not running triple the original HP output, then they may work great for you




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[*] posted on 27-6-2015 at 04:54 PM


why not crank pulley?
im curious
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[*] posted on 27-6-2015 at 09:55 PM


The minimal "gain" vs the inevitable catastrophe just not worth it to me...



he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
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Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

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[*] posted on 29-6-2015 at 02:11 PM










ON THE TOPIC OF VIBRATIONS, HARMONICS, AND SAFETY

This one deserves an entire book, but here goes...

Q. Will NST Pulleys lead to premature engine failure?
I cover this topic at least several times a month but I don't mind, I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go again... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...

In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.

Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.

What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?

Many many NST customers who have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???


Furthermore....


On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...

On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consequences.

The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.

Now weak engines that are pushing the limit with LOTS of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 500HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?

As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.

There are a lot of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting roughly 30 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes. These guys would not use NST pulleys if they were not reliable.

NST sponsored the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. The same car was very competitive in the Grand Am series and had factory backing from Toyota, Scion, and TRD. This car used pulleys from NST with great results since day one.

NST has sponsored several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Several of our cars have also competed in the Xtreme Drift Circuit and NOPI Drift series. To make things better, NST products are also used in autocross, time attack, and drag cars. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.

We could go on and on...

Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. As I said... small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm only reached by certain RACE engines.

A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case, the stock damper is probably not adequate either.

Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result. You will not find solid NST pulleys on our website for such engines.

Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.

I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject; as it applies in your case.

Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. But please remember... No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. Not all pulleys are created equal, and no other pulley is an NST pulley.

(this will be my one and only post regarding this issue in this thread, as I am not interested in the back-and-forth style, I-know-better-than-you, shouting matches some forum members seem to enjoy)

:2thumbsup:

[Edited on 7/16/2015 by alfradio]




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[*] posted on 29-6-2015 at 04:17 PM


Bruh

That book was a short story

Im pretty sure your pulley takes less to manufacture than the one the "experts" at Toyota uses

There must be a reason they use it

Not knocking your stuff at all, although there's absolutely NO physics to back up anything you just said about the crank pulleys

As Iiii said, it may work for the majority of the dudes here and I'll gladly endorse ALL the other pulleys except the crank pulley.

GLWS :2thumbsup:



[Edited on 29-6-2015 by GT_REVVA]




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

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[*] posted on 15-7-2015 at 10:41 AM


I don't have any intention nor desire to start a forum war with you, I will only address one of your comments...

Despite what you, or any other members may think, the OEM spends much less on producing their version of a crank pulley than we do. They have been building pulleys in the current format for decades and have the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality, backed by the low cost they receive from the manufacturers with whom they have had their contracts for decades.

The fact remains, all of the above points I have made are valid and are backed by the thousands of NST customers using our products on real engines in the real world, since 2005.

Thanks again, best of luck with all your projects!

[Edited on 7--15--15 by NonStopTuning]




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[*] posted on 15-7-2015 at 06:54 PM


Lol...spend less? You mean in actual cost per pulley?

Possibly, because they deal in WAY more volume than you do

Spend less in R&D?

:hand:

I hate to keep shitting in your thread, so just accept my blessings on all your other pullies





he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

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[*] posted on 15-7-2015 at 07:15 PM


lol a crank pulley for this car through the dealer is 45 bucks, cheaper than 120+
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[*] posted on 16-7-2015 at 02:59 PM


Quote: Originally posted by mycars12  
lol a crank pulley for this car through the dealer is 45 bucks, cheaper than 120+


And costs Toyota about $12.00 to purchase from their manufacturer.

:)




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[*] posted on 16-7-2015 at 07:50 PM


I dynod my lightweight underdrive NST...made no difference at all...however the time to make a power pull was significantly reduced



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