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Throttler
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[*] posted on 15-9-2011 at 08:17 AM
1st gen 5e w/ 2nd gen 5e HG becomes interference?


So I've been replacing the head on my pretty much stock 1st gen 5e, and I decided to go with the 2nd gen 5e metal shim head gasket for a little bump in the compression ratio. While preparing to install the timing belt, I wanted to check if the valves would interfere w/ the pistons, so I had the #1 piston at TDC, and I rocked the cam back and forth. I could not get the cam to rotate past a certain point going in both directions, which should indicate that this is now a interference engine. Here is a rather large video (140MB) so those of you with some patience can see what I'm talking about.



Let me know if you guys can see this or if I need to change my photobucket permissions.

[Edited on 15-9-2011 by Throttler]




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posted on another forum
...but point being, its a tercel. not meant to be fast, or to be an integra.


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[*] posted on 15-9-2011 at 09:01 AM


It should not be interference... only way to achieve interferenceness is by using 4efe pistons with the 2nd gen HG.


Are you sure that the head hasn't been shaved before? :dunno:




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[*] posted on 15-9-2011 at 09:21 AM


you get the cam timing correct? could be that the valves are opening and hitting each other




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[*] posted on 15-9-2011 at 09:31 AM


is that really a good way to check though steve?

think about it - under normal operation, the crank/rods/pistons would be moving in unison as well

turning the cams while keeping the pistons in one place may not be the best bet

i think the best way would be to stick a piece o clay in the cylinder, time it and then rotate the entire assembly to check for clearance




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[*] posted on 15-9-2011 at 09:45 AM


Quote: Originally posted by GT_REVVA  
is that really a good way to check though steve?

think about it - under normal operation, the crank/rods/pistons would be moving in unison as well

turning the cams while keeping the pistons in one place may not be the best bet

i think the best way would be to stick a piece o clay in the cylinder, time it and then rotate the entire assembly to check for clearance
:iwdumbass:
I ran into something similar (I think) when I was working on my WOO (which is an interference engine). I put the 1 piston @ TDC and I clocked the cams, No belt installed. I tried to rotate the cam assembly and it would not move.

Fortunately I did not crank the crap out of it ! I put the belt on and rotated and it was fine. SO I guess without the belt the pistons are in the way, with the belt the pistons drop out of the way.

Don't know if that helps but thought I would mention it.




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Throttler
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[*] posted on 15-9-2011 at 11:55 AM


I agree that the clay method would check for min clearance b/w piston and valve on an engine with the timing belt installed. This quick check was to see if the relationship b/w the cam and crank were lost, like during a broken t-belt scenario, would the pistons hit the valves. I would say the answer to this is yes for this combo of parts. More later...

It's now later and I have more time...like I mentioned in the video I think I ran into this as well on the hybrid 5e I built before...that was a 2nd gen bottom end, w/ a 1st gen top end, and a 2nd gen steel shim HG. I just didn't have a video camera to document it at the time.

I don't think the head has been shaved, but all I really know is it was out of a running car that had a rod knock. I did see it run and drive.

Also, just for the record I did not mess w/ the pistons, so I'm 99.9% sure they are installed the correct way. I can look at the HG comparison thread I made to make sure though.

Lastly, I finished puttting the engine back together last nite after I took the video and it runs fine. So yes, the cams were properly syncronized to each other in the video, and once I installed the t-belt w/ the cam gear hole aligned to the dot on the exhaust cam #1 bearing cap, and #1 piston at TDC (mark on crank gear aligned w/ mark on oil pump housing), the engine at least idles great. I will do a road test later today, as well as set the ignition timing per procedure.

Edit 2: BTW, i was calculating my new CR. Looking at my old CR thread from 2008, using some new head CC info from sc468nm, and some measurements I made.

So a stock 1st gen 5efe should have these values:

Configuration: 1st gen 5e pistons, 1st gen 5e head gasket, 1st gen 5e head:
Enter Cylinder Bore Size: 74mm
Enter Piston Stroke Length: 87mm
Enter Head Gasket Bore Diameter: 74.34mm
Enter Compressed Head Gasket Thickness: 1.42mm (I need to re-verify I measured my old 1st gen gasket as 0.056" thick in the fire ring area last nite)
Enter Combustion Chamber Volume In CCs: 36cc
Enter Piston Dome Volume In CCs Negative For Dished Pistons (Use '-'): -4.05cc valve reliefs + 1.67cc dome = -2.38cc
Enter Piston Deck Clearance Negative If ABOVE Deck (Use '-') : -0.051mm

This puts the CR about where it should be at 9.44:1 compared to a Toyota advertised CR of 9.4:1. I iterated the head volume to get it close to 9.4:1, and that value is only 1cc off of sc468nm's value. Tercelreference quotes 39cc. I think this is well within tolerance accounting for carbon buildup in the chamber. If I really wanted to I could cc some chambers on the 2 heads I have off the car to get a value.

Now if I change the compressed HG to 0.33mm I get this:

Configuration: 1st gen 5e pistons, 2nd gen 5e steel shim head gasket, 1st gen 5e head:
Enter Cylinder Bore Size: 74mm
Enter Piston Stroke Length: 87mm
Enter Head Gasket Bore Diameter: 74.34mm
Enter Compressed Head Gasket Thickness: 0.33mm
Enter Combustion Chamber Volume In CCs: 36cc
Enter Piston Dome Volume In CCs Negative For Dished Pistons (Use '-'): -4.05cc valve reliefs + 1.67cc dome = -2.38cc
Enter Piston Deck Clearance Negative If ABOVE Deck (Use '-') : -0.051mm

This comes up w/ 10.45:1 CR.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html/

[Edited on 15-9-2011 by Throttler]




92 Paseo WIP

Quote:
posted on another forum
...but point being, its a tercel. not meant to be fast, or to be an integra.


:haha:
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