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Author: Subject: Intake Manifold Design for Single TB IM's with a Plenum
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[*] posted on 6-8-2010 at 02:38 PM


btw - good lookin out on the schticky!:2thumbsup:



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[*] posted on 8-8-2010 at 04:55 PM


Back in the day a few guys used to run David Vizard designed cams in their original Minis. He also had a feature about porting the Toyota 3TC cylinder head. He also does great work on Chevy cylinder heads.
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sleepyrz
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[*] posted on 13-2-2011 at 08:40 PM


bizzzzuuuuuump

just aquired a set of intake headers with 4age 55mm throttle and enlarged plenum

by the way there are like 4-5 custom intake manifolds being produced for sale

race-tech
tmd developments
2 australian ones
not sure if SRT ever made one






5efhe .............................................Denso IRIDIUM PLUGS
GReddy E-MANAGE (BYP).................3" MANDREL BENT EXHAUST
no muffler they are for pussies.........GReddy FULL AUTO TIMER
DISABLED SPEED LIMITER...............FUEL CUT DEFENDER
COLORMATCHED BYP HARNESS........full coilovers
TiAl BOV.........................................TiAl wastegate
AVC-R boost controller.....................MSD digital 6 ignition
FRONT SWAYBAR.............................FRONT STRUTBAR
v-band flanged downpip....................CUSTOM INTAKE SETUP
GAUGES(BOOST,TACH)....................STARION FMIC
TRD plug wires.................................oh and i fucked your mom
===========================
catch you on the flipside,
Dave

this is your world im just living in it trying not to beat you to death
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[*] posted on 13-2-2011 at 09:00 PM


Wait so the ACIS and the FHE intake and whitch other one are the best??


Man this really burns my lovely butter toytoa and yamaha put so much money and time and brain power into this stuff and it is soooo hard to get your hands on an ACIS why????? They should have been on ALL 5E motors! It would have brought the price down cuz of the bult production! Butt nooooo instead its that cheap stuff :irked: come on! Man the 5EFHE Was great 110hp on pump gas back in the day with hirpm and low rpm intake Why did they not use that style on everything :rant: Its was like oldschool VVt!:rant:

So would an intake system like the ACIS have any effect on a VVT motor since the motor can tune itself with the cams to make the right power at the right RPM??




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[*] posted on 13-2-2011 at 09:35 PM


I have seen this ACIS type of manifold setup. what is the benefit of having one? I know I'm getting into this late but seriously what are you getting out of having individual throttle bodies?
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[*] posted on 20-2-2011 at 03:32 PM


Tuned Intake

All engines run tuned intake systems, where pressure waves run up and down inside the runners. The trick is to get a high pressure wave arriving back at the inlet valve at just the time it is again opening - so increasing the amount of gas that flows into the combustion chamber. This tuning can be achieved in all sorts of ways, as the variety of intake manifold designs shows. However, Thomas Ma - of the Ford Motor Company - has invented a new system of tuning intakes which is also very simple.

So why the need for a new system?
Click for larger image

"Conventionally the intake tracts of a multi-cylinder engine are brought together to a common plenum chamber, each tract opening into the plenum chamber at a point which is designed to experience the minimum flow interference from the other tracts. The tracts function as tuned lengths for which there is one engine speed where the torque is enhanced because of resonance of the pressure wave excitations within the intake system.

"More specifically, when the inlet valve starts to open, at the beginning of a four stroke cycle, the combustion chamber is still under pressure from the exhaust stroke of the previous cycle and a pressure wave passes out of the intake port and propagates at the speed of sound along the intake tract. This wave travels the entire length of the intake tract until it reaches the plenum chamber at which point it is reflected with opposite phase. A further three traverses of the entire length of the intake tract and two reflections at the open and closed ends of the tract are necessary before the wave again reaches the intake port as a positive pressure wave.

"Thus, with a fixed length tract, there are engine speeds at which the reflected pressure wave increases the charge density at the instant when the inlet valve closes so as to improve volumetric efficiency but other speeds when the wave arrives as a negative pressure tending to reduce volumetric efficiency.

"To obtain an improvement at low engine speeds, a long tract length is required but this has the disadvantage of increasing the package size and the resistance to flow at high engine speeds.

"The invention therefore seeks to provide a longer tuned length without increasing the size of the intake system and to avoid performance degradation from reflected waves having a negative pressure."
Click for larger image

It does this by a very simple technique: the openings to the intake runners of cylinder pairs where the valve events don't overlap are arranged so as to face one another inside the plenum. The mouths are separated by a gap "which is narrower than the diameter of the tracts, the gap being sufficiently wide to permit mass air flow between the respective tracts and the common passage but being sufficiently narrow to couple most of any pressure wave energy emanating from one tract directly into the other tract."

"Preferably, the gap between the ends of the tracts within the plenum chamber should be between one quarter and one half of the diameter of the tracts.

"This arrangement permits mass air flow to enter freely into either one of the intake tracts yet at the same time a pressure wave coming from either tract is transmitted across to the opposite tract which now functions as a resonance column with a closed end. By ensuring good coupling of the pressure wave across the facing pipes, the effective tuned length is made equal to the combined length of the two tracts and the pressure wave can propagate several times along its length with closed-end reflections at both ends. Because both ends of the resonating column are closed, the pressure wave suffers no pressure inversion as would be the case in a conventional tract.

"Because no reflection is inverted, there are twice as many engine speeds at which the resonance tuning is effective and the engine will experience torque enhancement at low speed as well as at high speed. This is achieved with no increase in size relative to a conventional intake system and no need of a variable geometric system. There is also no increase in friction as the tract carrying the flow is short."







5efhe .............................................Denso IRIDIUM PLUGS
GReddy E-MANAGE (BYP).................3" MANDREL BENT EXHAUST
no muffler they are for pussies.........GReddy FULL AUTO TIMER
DISABLED SPEED LIMITER...............FUEL CUT DEFENDER
COLORMATCHED BYP HARNESS........full coilovers
TiAl BOV.........................................TiAl wastegate
AVC-R boost controller.....................MSD digital 6 ignition
FRONT SWAYBAR.............................FRONT STRUTBAR
v-band flanged downpip....................CUSTOM INTAKE SETUP
GAUGES(BOOST,TACH)....................STARION FMIC
TRD plug wires.................................oh and i fucked your mom
===========================
catch you on the flipside,
Dave

this is your world im just living in it trying not to beat you to death
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[*] posted on 10-3-2011 at 10:14 AM


not that this matters but just thought that people would be interested to know that yamaha had their in on the engine design for the first gen taurus sho

which in my opinion is a badass motor that like a lot of us was born to a parent that it didn't get to choose(ford)

anyways, sleepyrz until I read this I hadn't realized you were so damn smart, ijust thought you were an egotistical narcissistic asshole, but you are one hell of a smart dude and an asset to this community.

Thank you for the post, it opened my eyes to a lot of things that I had no idea so much engineering went in to

keep up the good work and keep learnin us
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[*] posted on 10-3-2011 at 11:56 AM


I wish that I had a real grasp of all of this. Just taking part of it: "Once the wave reaches the plenum, the resonance wave is isolated and the plenum chamber behaves like a resonance chamber."
Looking at the ACIS intake, I can appreciate what Yamaha accomplished with the dual runner design on a NA engine. What isn't clear is the effect when air is pushed into the plenum under boost. Does the whole dynamic change when you add 12, 14, or 18 pounds of boost? It was suggested, in another thread, that I would only see a difference on a dyno and really wouldn't notice a difference from the seat. I really like the improvements from the T25 but this would be a lot of effort for no noticible gain.
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[*] posted on 10-3-2011 at 06:53 PM


This thread is now diamonds. Awesome read, moar please.:pepper:

I would imagine that the gain from this decreases as you go up in boost, since compressibility is a function of density (compressed air compresses less for the same amount of energy, kind of like a spring that's already compressed). So while the most you can get out of an ideal setup is, let's say +10 grams of air per cylinder (for argument's sake), at +14psi boost, you might only get a max of +5 grams.

Makes sense?


[Edited on 10-3-2011 by Loki_v2]




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[*] posted on 10-3-2011 at 09:45 PM


As air is compressed, the speed of sound waves (pressure waves) will increase. Speed of sound = wavelength X Frequency.

Since the speed of waves is increasing and the wavelength, which is dictated by the distance between valves + runners, is the same The frequency would have to rise. So the speed of the valve events would have to be increased to reach the same tuning effect under boost.

For instance at sea level, 1 bar of pressure - 14.7psi, sounds moves at 340 meters/sec. At 40 thousand feet atmospheric pressure is only 2.7 psi. but the speed of sound only drops 13%. Lot's of other variables to, such as temperature, which effects density.

I would expect some shift to a higher RPM for the tuning under boost, but it will probably not be drastic. Doubling air pressure raises the speed of sound by roughly 7%. So running 14 psi boost should shift the tuning speed up no more than 7%. Higher temperatures will negate some of the effect of the higher pressure on sound speed. So 3500 tuning would probably shift to around 3600 - 3650 or 5%.

Probably too big of an explanation but hey there you go. :twocents:

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by willboost]
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[*] posted on 11-3-2011 at 01:58 AM


Reading through all of this makes me want to stick with what I have. I haven't found an actuator that works at 12V and with enough force and through. I've seen alot of theory but nobody that has actually made one work and has dynos to show a significant performance increase over the stock 4E. I have a new plastic spacer to help stop some of the heat transfer. I think that I will add that and call it a day.
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[*] posted on 14-3-2011 at 11:31 AM


you are wrong there are dynos

there have been dynos for like 6-7 years maybe

its proven

get over it





5efhe .............................................Denso IRIDIUM PLUGS
GReddy E-MANAGE (BYP).................3" MANDREL BENT EXHAUST
no muffler they are for pussies.........GReddy FULL AUTO TIMER
DISABLED SPEED LIMITER...............FUEL CUT DEFENDER
COLORMATCHED BYP HARNESS........full coilovers
TiAl BOV.........................................TiAl wastegate
AVC-R boost controller.....................MSD digital 6 ignition
FRONT SWAYBAR.............................FRONT STRUTBAR
v-band flanged downpip....................CUSTOM INTAKE SETUP
GAUGES(BOOST,TACH)....................STARION FMIC
TRD plug wires.................................oh and i fucked your mom
===========================
catch you on the flipside,
Dave

this is your world im just living in it trying not to beat you to death
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[*] posted on 14-3-2011 at 11:36 AM


the resonance effect occurs at any and all pressures

there is an opening and closing valve event a mechanical physical block to motion

this induces a reflection back up and bounces off the back of the plenum

if i have to physically go and make a kit and sell it to you guys

this will be sad

dont make me take 3 minutes out of my day







5efhe .............................................Denso IRIDIUM PLUGS
GReddy E-MANAGE (BYP).................3" MANDREL BENT EXHAUST
no muffler they are for pussies.........GReddy FULL AUTO TIMER
DISABLED SPEED LIMITER...............FUEL CUT DEFENDER
COLORMATCHED BYP HARNESS........full coilovers
TiAl BOV.........................................TiAl wastegate
AVC-R boost controller.....................MSD digital 6 ignition
FRONT SWAYBAR.............................FRONT STRUTBAR
v-band flanged downpip....................CUSTOM INTAKE SETUP
GAUGES(BOOST,TACH)....................STARION FMIC
TRD plug wires.................................oh and i fucked your mom
===========================
catch you on the flipside,
Dave

this is your world im just living in it trying not to beat you to death
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[*] posted on 14-3-2011 at 12:50 PM


you could and charge an idiot tax



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[*] posted on 14-3-2011 at 05:43 PM


The resonance effect can occur at all pressures, but not all frequencies (engine speeds). Higher pressure will still have a resonance at a different frequency.

There are indeed pressure waves occurring at all points in the operating range. If a valve closes it generates a pressure wave. If the piston is coming up it will generate a positive pressure pulse and if the pulse reaches the open valve, the pulse will come into the manifold. If the wavelength matches the length of the runner it will resonate.
Resonance is not pressure waves bouncing around from every event. Resonance is when waves bounce in a specific pattern that allows pressure to build beyond the original pressure. When used in an engine this allows more pressure to be exerted on the air column to push more air into the cylinder than would normally go in at atmospheric pressure.

Don't waste your time creating a kit. Open a bottle of your favorite drink. Blow over the top, you will be able to hear one or two resonant frequencies. You can send in any frequency you want, but only a few will resonate and get stronger:waving:. Drink some of the brew, blow again, different frequency will resonate. Accordingly, the power boost from runner tuning will be felt at specific ranges, these ranges will be shifted a little depending on pressure, more specifically, density of the air in the column.
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