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icon_article.gif posted on 22-4-2010 at 02:54 PM
The GT_REVVA fact thread:


i call it a fact thread but, in reality nothing is fact - it's all opinion! things become fact due to the influence the promulgator (or author or storyteller) has on the observer. the truth of the matter is, often there are usually several approaches at solving any given problem. this thread will just cover the approaches that have worked for me with good results.

now, i'm not a mathematician, a scientist, an engineer - i wouldn't even consider myself a technician. i think i'm a reasonably intelligent individual, with somewhat decent analytical skills. i am most inspired to do things that others say 'can't be done' and, some of my best achievements have come from this source of inspiration.

ok, so every once in a while, a thread comes along that inspires me to want to post a long winded epistle or, pull the truck out and run over somebody. i've decided now instead of ranting and raving in other people's threads, to start my own - a thread to dispel many myths about this platform and their potentials or shortcomings.

that being said, this thread will be dedicated SOLELY to the documentation of my experiences with these platforms, the EL and EP series, it may occasionally stray to other TOYOTA platforms, particularly with issues than can apply to general automotive know-how, but for the most part, i'll try to keep it relevant to this community.

in the same spirit that Alfradio has the 1/4 MILE LEADER BOARD thread and the ENGINE BAYING AT THE MOON thread, i would appreciate if nothing is posted in this thread except for my input. questions will not be necessary as i intend to make entries as detailed as necessary for any given subject. I will update it time to time at my convenience and edit accordingly.

I'm gonna ask those who frequent other forums to refrain from siphoning this info from TO.com. this is where i want it to be so, please have some respect.

:deal::deal::deal::deal::deal::deal::deal::deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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[*] posted on 22-4-2010 at 03:11 PM
I'm NOT an asshole, apparently i just play one on the internet.


Well, not totally true. From time to time i've been called an :censored: but, when one's a perfectionist, anything less than perfection can tend to bring out the worst in them. :dunno:

You've probably seen me ask someone why their engine bay is dirty...or why their harness doesn't look factory even though I made it to look factory...or why they felt compelled to remove the windshield washer bottle to run their intercooler plumbing.

Well, I can't help it. I'm a Libra and, my birthday falls astrologically in 'the week of the perfectionist' so, as it seems, i was born this way. I mean, why can't I have 300 hp in my Tercel and, still have AC, windshield washer and my fuse box and igniter mounted in the same place they came from the factory? And why wouldn't i want the same for you who represents the same platform as me?

Why should I blow the doors off an EVO or Civic just to have the driver retort "well, at least i have AC"? Hell, well i do too - so, you just got raped by a 300 hp Tercel with AC.:smug:

I'm all for street cars to have all the same amenities and creature comforts of street cars - but, that's just me.





he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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Posts: 6046
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[*] posted on 22-4-2010 at 03:45 PM


When swapping motors in an EL chassis, the mounts from the car can more often than not be used on the new motor.

ENGINE SIDE

there are a few cases of E motors that come from Corollas or other non EL cars. when you go to swap your motor, make sure the bracket on the timing cover side of your new motor matches the bracket on the motor coming out of your car. if it does, proceed to the next step. if it does not, proceed to installing the brackets from your old motor to the new then continue from there. this step will ALWAYS be necessary when swapping a 4E or 5E into an EL31 chassis.
EP82 mounts are narrower than EL mounts so, always go with your EL mount.:deal:

TRANSMISSION SIDE

the transmission bracket closest to the firewall is interchangeable between manual transmissions ie: your rear bracket from your C1XX tranny will bolt up just fine to your C5X tranny if it didn't come with one. this is also true when going from 4 speed to 5 speed.
the bracket on the tranny that sits under the battery tray is also interchangeable between C1XX and C5X..the only difference being, the C5X tranny uses an additional support bracket that goes from the main bracket to the top of the transmission. it is necessary to use this bracket to support the additional torque output of turbo motors - otherwise, tranny case breakage is imminent.

the transmission bracket closest to the firewall is interchangeable between automatic transmissions so, if you're swapping from 3 speed to 4 speed auto, your rear mount should align just fine.
the bracket on the tranny that sits under the battery tray is DIFFERENT between 3 speed auto and 4 speed auto trans so, if you're doing a tranny swap, you need the bracket SPECIFIC to that trans. any 3 speed bracket will work with any 3 speed and likewise any 4 speed auto bracket will work for any 4 speed auto trans.

there is a HUGE washer that goes on the thru bolt of the driver's side 3 speed auto trans, when converting to 4 speed auto or to a manual setup, removal of that washer is necessary.


:deal::deal::deal::deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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[*] posted on 23-4-2010 at 04:24 PM
C15X and C5X comparison pics : external


here are comparison pics of a C15X tranny


....and the C5X tranny


as you may or may not see from the pictures, the C5X tranny case is a stronger, thicker casting than the C15X casting, in that the boss that the additional bracket is bolted on the C5X has more structural support and webbing than the C15X.

do not question Toyota engineers - just go with the stronger transmission.

C4X and C5X > C14X and C15X - game over.:deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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Posts: 6046
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Mood: when you KNOW you're smarter than someone, don't be afraid to LET THEM KNOW. -my Mom..smartest person I know :deal:

[*] posted on 23-4-2010 at 06:18 PM


ALL CV axles between North American FWD EL chassis are interchangeable. This means, only cars that are market specific to us so, this does NOT include EL55 AWD or EE101 w 6 speed, or axles from an EP with external LSD.

for example : this means that axles from an 87 automatic EL31 will fit on a 99 5 speed EL54. there are subtle differences however.

differences include

the threaded end of the axle and the axle nut inside diameter on EL 31 is smaller than those of the later models. however if you get the corresponding axle nut and axle nut cover, any of these axles will fit on any one of these cars.

even though the splines of the axle shaft that goes into the inboard and outboard cv joints are the same throughout, generally the axle shafts of automatic ELs are thicker in circumference than those of their manual counterparts (from my experience).

it may seem like added insurance to some to go with the thicker axle but, i've found that the majority of the time axle failure usually occurs at the inboard joint where the axle goes into the diff.

EP82 outboard CV axles will NOT fit Tercel or Paseo hubs. Terseo Axles have been proven over 400 whp though so, they're capable - though not indestructible.

DIFFERENTIAL OUTPUT SEALS

for respective sides....
3 speed auto : all the same across the board.
4 speed auto : all the same across the board.
4 speed manual : all the same across the board.
5 speed manual : all the same across the board (except C53).

EXTERNAL LSD AXLES

the C53 transmission with external LSD housing uses a different right side axle than the typical FWD setups on these platforms. should you decide to purchase one of these transmissions, try to acquire the right side axle as well. if not, it will be necessary to make a custom axle. this axle will have to be 5 inches shorter than the regular right side axle.
while on the subject of the C53, the firewall mount is specific to this transmission so, the conventional firewall bracket or firewall mount will not work for this application.

ABS

in all my times working on these cars (and, i've worked on a LOT, for quite a few years), i've never worked on one with anti-lock brakes although, i know it was an available option.


:deal::deal::deal::deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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[*] posted on 23-4-2010 at 06:34 PM
CLUTCHES


ok, so how many time have we heard :

"i'm going from 4 speed M/T to 5 speed M/T..do i need to change my clutch too?"
or
"i'm swapping from a C15X to a C5X, will my clutch still work?"

simply put, transmission DOES NOT determine clutch size. the input shaft spline is the same throughout for all the trannies that bolt to these engines. so ANY tranny that bolts to these engines will work with whatever clutch is on the engine.

clutch size is determined by the diameter of the friction surface of the flywheel and the pressure plate depends on the orientation of the dowels on the flywheel.

so, in short - clutch application depends on the motor, NOT the transmission.

FLYWHEEL

3E flywheels and 5E flywheels are interchangeable.
4E flywheel stands alone.

3E, 4EFE and 5E flywheels use the same 200mm clutch.
3ETE and 4EFTE flywheels use the same 212mm clutch.

it's been said some 3Es use a 212mm but, i've personally never seen it so, i'll post what i'm familiar with from experience.

:deal::deal::deal::deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
DivisionOne Article Autoblog RR articleFACT THREAD TO Members' Modded Rides TO HORSEPOWER LEADER BOARD
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Posts: 6046
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Mood: when you KNOW you're smarter than someone, don't be afraid to LET THEM KNOW. -my Mom..smartest person I know :deal:

[*] posted on 26-4-2010 at 03:24 PM


this will be a quick entry. lately there has been talk all over the internet about the capabilities - or rather, the incapabilities of piggybacks to make GOBS of HP. while nobody can dispute the awesomeness which is standalone engine management, the lowly piggyback is quite capable of churning out neck snapping, tire burning, tranny breaking, axle twisting power. just a few cases in point.

FIRE {ASI 4EFTE at the time}, 219 WHP @ 13 psi on 93 octane/ 261 WHP @ 20 psi on C16. 440s, T3/TO4E, SAFC

STEALTH {ASI 5EFHE}, 240 WHP @ 18 psi on 93 octane. 365s, T3, SAFC

PRIZE {ASI 4EFTE}, 226 WHP @ 16 psi on 93 octane. 440s, GT28R, EMB

HEDZTALEZ {ASI 5EFHE}, 249 WHP @ 18 psi on 93 octane. 440s, T3, EMB

VTEC HUNTER {ASI 5EFHE}, 230 WHP @ 13 psi on 93 octane/289 @ 20 psi on C16. 440s, T3/TO4E, EMB

TURBONECCO (aka boostjunkie) {BUILT 5EFHE} 290? WHP @ 20 psi, 311 WHP @ 24 psi on C16. 720s, T3, EMB

TECNOHOUND {BUILT FHE}, 363 WHP @ 27psi on C16. 720s, T3/TO4E, EMU

....just to name a few.

so, don't knock the piggyback hustle. if you don't know how to use them or, if it's just a personal preference, that's a different story.

they are FULLY capable though - for all different levels of power as clearly indicated above.

:deal::deal::deal::deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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Posts: 6046
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Mood: when you KNOW you're smarter than someone, don't be afraid to LET THEM KNOW. -my Mom..smartest person I know :deal:

[*] posted on 15-5-2010 at 10:25 AM
SEALS AND GASKETS


when it comes to the 4EFTE and 5EFHE, most gaskets and seals are interchangeable with the US 1st gen 5E.

the obvious differences will include turbo specific gaskets and seals of the 4EFTE and, ACIS gaskets of the 5EFHE.

so, the FTE will be able to use everything from our 1st gen 5E EXCEPT:
timing belt and rear main seal.
the FHE will be able to use everything.

WATER PUMP

if your FTE or FHE came with a bolt on type water pump pulley, you'll be able to use a 1st gen (pre 95) water pump.
if your FTE or FHE came with a press on type water pump pulley, you'll be able to use a 2nd gen (95+) water pump.

:deal::deal::deal::deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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alfradio
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Thread Pruned
3-2-2011 at 04:18 AM
GT_REVVA
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[*] posted on 21-8-2011 at 09:22 AM


the amount of available torque and max useable rpms determine how 'quick' a car goes through the gears

underdrive gear ratios (1st, 2nd, 3rd gear) are torque multipliers - where the drive gear works harder than the driven gear. this is why you go through rpms so quickly in these gears..they are just to get you moving. the higher the number, the greater the multiplication but, no real speed or power to be had here.
[final drives are also underdrive gears eg. 3.72:1 means the pinion gear turns 3.72 times to turn the ring gear once etc]

direct drive 1:1 (4th gear) is where input matches output - this is the LOAD gear and this is the first gear where the power of your engine is not eaten up through torque multiplication thus, this is where most power pulls are made on a dyno.
our cars dont have a true 1:1, more like 2 overdrives (4th - 0.9xx:1, and 5th - 0.8xx:1)

overdrive is where the driven gear works harder than the drive gear - approaching terminal velocity (hint: for serious mph - this is where you want to be)

in drag racing, the aim is to match the gears to the amount of torque you have so you can get to terminal velocity quickly

the quicker you can get to a 1:1 ratio, the quicker you get to terminal velocity

dont believe the hype - said it before i'll say it again...look at ANY dedicated drag car, they are blowing the traps in top gear - because they understand the concept that top gear is where terminal velocity is

look at boostjunkie - best time is with a 4.3. he now has more power and a 3.7 and still cant get back to 11.6 because he cant get out of underdrive quick enough

look at alf - 12.7 with a 4.3 (or was it 4.5). he now has close to 80 more hp than he did back then and, with the 3.7 is now running just .3 better in the quarter

cars with lots of low end torque tend to have higher (numerically lower) final drives because, their rpm bands arent that high so, no matter where they shift, they'll fall back into the power.

this is a concept i grasped since 95 when i got certified in manual drivetrain and axles - even my instructor was amazed at how fast i grasped it (and he was not a dumb guy like most technical school instructors are these days)

i personally like the 3.7 better myself because, i'm more of a 'closed course' racer than a '1/4 mile strip' racer :smug: and didnt want to be hitting the limiter at 150 in 5th gear.:deal:

dedicated drag cars want to go through ALL the gears in the 1/4

street/strip cars have to find that happy medium between decent times at the track and good mpg (cruise gearing) on the hwy.

another thing to consider is, since most power pulls on a dyno are made in 4th gear, if you cant really hit 4th on the strip, you won't really be getting to that power so, if anything THAT's the gear you wanna be blowing the traps in


just know, no matter how well these guys do in the 1/4 with the 3.7, they'll ALWAYS be able to do better with the 4.3 - because, a lower (numerically higher) final drive will promote getting to terminal velocity faster, ESPECIALLY due to how high up the rpm band their power is being made. i dont care who wants to believe it or not.:dunno:










he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
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Posts: 6046
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[*] posted on 21-8-2011 at 06:32 PM


Quote: Originally posted by joseph_flynn007  
Or do you mean dedicated drag racing in the 1/8th or 1/4 want to all gears except any that are numerically lower than 1:1?

We've (meaning people I personally know) setup their vehicles for such. Those running nation wide series, I can't say I know what they are doing.

Quote this and respond and I will come back and delete this post so we can keep it just based with your post only.:thumbup:



y0u missed a few words there flynn but, if you're trying to say racers wanna blow the 1/4 mile traps in nothing less than 1:1 then yes, that's what i mean.

i know how you domestic guys are because, as a 'closed course ricer':smug:, i've come across many stangs, camaros and trans ams that WILL NOT roll race due to the fact they have their gearing set up to run from a dig

referring to cars that are drag cars only aka, dont have to drive home, then yes, even overdrive gets hit on the strip.

and yea, prune this up for me please




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
DivisionOne Article Autoblog RR articleFACT THREAD TO Members' Modded Rides TO HORSEPOWER LEADER BOARD
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GT_REVVA
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******




Posts: 6046
Registered: 3-8-2002
Location: Mecca, EDEN
Member Is Offline

Mood: when you KNOW you're smarter than someone, don't be afraid to LET THEM KNOW. -my Mom..smartest person I know :deal:

[*] posted on 10-1-2013 at 02:45 PM


The return-less fuel system came on 97 model year Paseos and Tercels. This means there is no fuel return line from the rail and the fuel pressure regulator is in the tank.

If your Tercel or Paseo came out before the 97 model year, your car has a rail mounted pressure regulator and unused fuel returns to the tank.

To recap:

97 = return-less

pre 97 = return

that is all :deal:




he who knows and, knows he knows...he is a wise man , seek him
he who knows and, knows not he knows....he is asleep, wake him
he who knows not and, knows he knows not...he is a child, teach him
he who knows not and, knows not he knows not...he is a fool, shun him
Mulberry:The car is reliable, it has made at least 100 passes on the dyno and it has passed the GT_REVVA test
sleepyrz:yea and if he cant get it to break you sure as hell cant

krussure of nubz dreemz Ultrasound Baby Driving
DivisionOne Article Autoblog RR articleFACT THREAD TO Members' Modded Rides TO HORSEPOWER LEADER BOARD
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