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Author: Subject: 3E Head On 5E Block..It Works..~11.5:1 Compression
SlammedSix
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[*] posted on 19-5-2009 at 03:00 AM
3E Head On 5E Block..It Works..~11.5:1 Compression


OK, from my research i know that the blocks of a 5E and 3E are the same, The main difference is the Pistons. And i know these motors are Non-interference, because of the design and valve reliefs on the pistons.

Now here is my question, please don't ask why?

I am interested in knowing if I buy a used Japanese 5E and remove the head and put my 3E head on it without swapping the pistons will it run fine, with the timing set right of course? Will it just become a Interference engine? Or will the motor just not be functionable?

Thanks for any help i can get:thanx:


[Edited on 26-10-2010 by SlammedSix]




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[*] posted on 19-5-2009 at 03:02 AM


why would you do that? all you have to do is switch 2 wires to run a 5efe in a originally 3ee car.



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SlammedSix
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[*] posted on 19-5-2009 at 03:13 AM


I guess you didn't read my entire post:screwy:

I fully understand what is NEEDED to run the complete 5EFE motor setup




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[*] posted on 19-5-2009 at 04:04 AM


Valve relief pattern may make for a full time interference engine. Or just upon startup.:lachen:

Also, you will see some things discussed in this thread which is like within a couple threads of your thread here in this same section.

http://board.tercelonline.com/viewthread.php?tid=39518

Blocks are not the same. Bore size different. Refer to that link above.




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Tercel5efe93
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[*] posted on 19-5-2009 at 04:14 AM


I guess you could make the valves and pistons like each other?:dunno:

You can't just change the head you will have to also get the pistons from a 5efe first gen too !
The 3ee pistons are different because of the valves.
Your 3ee -3e-3ete-pistons are in the shape for 3 valves per cylinder as for the 5efe,5efhe,4efe,and the 4efte have 4 valves per cylinder.
They have different grooves in the pistons.







^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That should be all the info you need point blank!!
If you do this you will be the first person ever in the histroy of the forums do set your self up for complete failure.

Not trying to make fun just telling it like it is.
It will never work.:lachen:





[Edited on 19-5-2009 by 4speedsleeper]
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[*] posted on 19-5-2009 at 05:08 PM


Valve reliefs in the pistons are not the only thing letting the motor run. The valve reliefs are cut for the event of a timing belt to break and a valve is fully open it will not smash into the piston, Hence, making it a non-interfence motor. This is not true in all engines but from my experience it is in alot of Non-Interference engines I have come across.

So just curious has someone actually taken measurements, to see that the valve will hit the piston with the timing SET CORRECTLY!!? Cause most cam profiles will not protrude a vlave lower than the head surface, Especially in a mild motor like these.

I guess it won't hurt for me to take some measurements myself when i get my 5EFE, bolt the 3E head down and spin the motor by hand.

Example:
My Mazda MX-3 motor, I swapped in some 300ZX pisotns was a much bigger bore, and Domed and the motor was still a Non-Interference motor.

That is also why a Honda motor will run fine and not have valves hit the pistons while running with the correct timing set, But if that belt slips a tooth or brekas its a horrible mess.


[Edited on 19-5-2009 by SlammedSix]

[Edited on 19-5-2009 by SlammedSix]




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[*] posted on 19-5-2009 at 09:15 PM


Haha, maybe he's trying to keep the appearance of a stock engine but get a couple ponies for auto-x or something similar :dunno:



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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 12:11 AM


1st off 4speedsleeper why all the hostility, I am not getting all worked up with the responses I am getting. I knew people would say Its stupid and pointless, but i have a reason why i want to try and see if this will work

And since you are making all these assumptions as to why i am doing it and calling this idea of mine as stupid and pointless I'll explain why i wanna do this.

I am in California and i would like to SMOG the car, The 3E I have in the car is knocking. I am planning on doing a 5EFE swap, so I was planning on purchasing a 5EFE and putting it in the car but with a 3E Head, manifold, sensors, and smogging it and then swapping the heads back so i can drive with the full 5EFE.

If you wanna call me full of it...Fine. I am a well known mechanic around here, and have built several 12 sec daily driven cars. So I think you need to :chillpill:




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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 12:17 AM


I was just simply trying to see if anyone had tried this, But I can't believe this is how I get treated in this forum, I don't think my question was stupid, and if you can't see why I would wanna do that with my reason i gave then I will just choose to ignore your post in this thread for anyone that has some helpful information to give.



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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 12:36 AM


Yes I will be removing the head for a day or two, Then when its smogged i would put the 5EFE Head back on.

WHATS THE PROBLEM WITH THAT? THATS SMART! (if it works, hence, my question)




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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 12:37 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by SlammedSix
I am in California and i would like to SMOG the car, The 3E I have in the car is knocking. I am planning on doing a 5EFE swap, so I was planning on purchasing a 5EFE and putting it in the car but with a 3E Head, manifold, sensors, and smogging it and then swapping the heads back so i can drive with the full 5EFE.


Slammed, just to let you know, I passed smog with my stock 5EFE. The guy didn't even question it.




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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 12:40 AM


The people here are real anal, they climb all in the engine bay to check everything. I don't wanna pay $50 to have them say this is not the original motor, you fail! Also on the hood it has the vacuum line of the 3E and they check that out closely.

I have hook ups to just pass it for a fee, but i would like it to pass legitly




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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 12:53 AM


I think it would've served us all better if you said why you wanted to do it from the start. Not that you have to, but just to avoid/minimize a good portion of the posts in this thread asking "why?". It's not a bad reason at all--especially being a temporary thing. Just a bit of work. I was thinking that the 5efe would pass as airswoosh said, but :dunno:. I only smogged a geo metro in cali and that passed with flying colors.:bananarock:

Either way, let's at least act as though we all love one another.:blush:




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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 01:14 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by SlammedSix
The people here are real anal, they climb all in the engine bay to check everything. I don't wanna pay $50 to have them say this is not the original motor, you fail! Also on the hood it has the vacuum line of the 3E and they check that out closely.


Go to a different smog station then. I'm in L.A., so I'm pretty familiar with strict Cali emissions regulations. I've never been to a smog station that studied the vacuum routing. If the engine looks like it should be there, as the 5E does, I don't think you should have an issue (I didn't).




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[*] posted on 20-5-2009 at 02:10 AM


3ee & 5efe valves




I-DOHC engine, 1.122" Head Dia., 0.2353" Stem Dia., 3.681" O.A.L.
E-DOHC engine; 0.965" Head Dia., 0.2351" Stem Dia., 3.699" O.A.L.
I-SOHC engine; 1.181" Head Dia., 0.235" Stem Dia., 3.635" O.A.L
E-SOHC engine; 1.225" Head Dia., 0.235" Stem Dia., 3.635" O.A.L.

5efe
standard length
5efe
I-93.45mm-(3.6791in.)
E-93.89mm-(3.6965in.)

minimal length
5efe
I-92.95mm(3.6594in.)
E-93.39mm(3.6768in.)


3ee
Standard overall length:
Intake
Main
92.26 mm (3.6323 in.)
Sub
91.80 mm (3.6142 in.)
Exhaust
92.26 mm (3.6323 in.)

Minimum overall length:
Intake
Main
91.76 mm(3.6126 in.)
Sub
91.30 mm(3.5945 in.)
Exhaust
91.76 mm(3.6126 in.)

There's also dish v.s. dome
73mm vs 74mm ~~~~~~3valves~~~~4valves

[Edited on 20-5-2009 by 4speedsleeper]

[Edited on 20-5-2009 by 4speedsleeper]
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